Users mailing list

[Milan Zamazal]

Hans de Goede <hans at hansg.org> writes:

> Hi All,
>
> On 3-Jun-25 4:02 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> We've discussed this topic today. A few options are on the table, each
>> with pros and cons. I'll try to summarize them here.
>> 
>> 1. Keep using the libcamera-devel mailing list
>> 
>>    Pros:
>>      - Easy to set up, as there's nothing to do.
>>      - Large number of subscribers, so likely to contain the knowledge
>>        required to answer user questions.
>>    Cons:
>>      - The -devel name implies this isn't for users, so it could create
>>        a psychological barrier.
>>      - High(ish) volume, can put off some users.
>>      - A large number of user questions could disturb the
>>        development-related discussions.
>>      - Difficult to reply to an old e-mail from before you subscribe to
>>        the list.
>>      - Apparently some people consider that mailing lists should be a
>>        thing from the past. I have no idea who those people are :-)
>> 
>> 2. Create a libcamera-users mailing list
>> 
>>    Pros:
>>      - Easy to set up, infrastructure to manage mailing lists already
>>        exists for libcamera.org.
>>      - The list name reflects its purpose.
>>      - No risk of flooding the devel list with user questions.
>>    Cons:
>>      - There would be less developers subcribed to the list, so lower
>>        chances of getting answers until a wider pool of knowledgeable
>>        users appears.
>>      - Difficult to reply to an old e-mail from before you subscribe to
>>        the list.
>>      - Apparently people didn't get my point from 1., and still consider
>>        that mailing lists are a thing from the past.
>> 
>> 3. Use gitlab.freedesktop.org issues
>> 
>>    Pros:
>>      - Easy to set up, gitlab is already there.
>>      - The people who disagreed with me in 1. and 2. will be happy about
>>        a non-mailing-list solution.
>>      - No risk of flooding the devel list with user questions.
>>      - Easy to reply to old messages.
>>    Cons:
>>      - There would likely be even less people watching issues, so even
>>        less relevant answers (I may be biased on this though).
>>      - We plan to possibly switch from bugzilla (on bugs.libcamera.org)
>>        to gitlab, user questions would therefore disturb bug processing.
>>      - gitlab issues are not a forum, the tool seems ill-fitted for the
>>        purpose.
>>      - Requires registering a gitlab.freedesktop.org account and getting
>>        it approved, which isn't an immediate process due to spam issues.
>> 
>> 4. Create a libcamera forum
>> 
>>    Pros:
>>      - The people who dislike mailing lists may like this (unless we
>>        decide to use phpbb I suppose).
>>      - No risk of flooding the devel list with user questions.
>>      - Easy to reply to old messages.
>>    Cons:
>>      - More work to install and maintain.
>>      - There would likely be even less people watching issues, so even
>>        less relevant answers until a sizeable community forms.
>>      - Requires registering an account and logging in (I'm also biased
>>        here).
>>      - For people who prefer e-mail workflows, forums are disturbing.
>
> I just want to add my 2 cents to the forum bits here as someone who
> also has a preference for mailinglists over forums.
>
> A while back my local hackerspace moved from having a mailinglist to
> a forum, specifically to discourse. For similar reasons, it seems that
> the youth and thus the future does not like/do mailinglists and want
> a forum instead.

I still wonder how people manage to watch web forums (I once asked a few
colleagues and all of them replied "I don't watch any").

> The hackerspace specifically chose discourse because this has pretty
> decent email integration when mailinglist mode is enabled.
>
> Every topic becomes an email thread with every new comment in the topic
> becoming a reply in the thread. And as long as your from: matches the 
> email used to "subscribe" to the forum you can also reply by email.
> So basically if you want everything can be done from your email client,
> just as with a list.
>
> In my experience this work well, at least good enough that I'm not
> bothered by the move to discourse and as you say moving to a forum
> is probably best in the long run.

As long as there is somebody to maintain it properly.  Namely:

- Setting up e-mail delivery properly.  It can be done in Discourse
  (I've seen such a forum) but I don't know whether it's very easy (I've
  seen Discourse forums with horrible e-mail experience).

- Moderating the forum, such as maintaining and structuring topics and
  moving messages between them.  Having a well structured archive is one
  of the few real advantages of having a forum.

> That still leaves the issue of needing to have someone to actually
> set up and admin a discource based libcamera forum though, without
> someone to work on this I agree that sticking with just the -devel
> maillist is best.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hans